VirPed Panel: 12 May 2024

“Mira” asks:

What do you think of “barely legal” pornography content? Do you see it as a legal way to fulfill a fantasy that people would never act on in real life or a slippery slope to most people? Do you think that it should be legal and easily accessible as it currently is online?

For me, the word “barely” is meaningless and undefinable. If it’s legal, it’s legal. And I don’t believe that images cause people to seek the real thing with children of any age.

So it comes down to whether I think pornography involving those defined as adults should be legal. I think it should. My response does not address child pornography as it was not addressed in the question.

One of the reasons why I sought help that led me to VirPed was because the “barely legal” pornography I was viewing made me incredibly ashamed. I’ve heard testimonies about young pornographic actors who were groomed into the industry, presumably before the age of 18. I’ve heard they were manipulated or coerced into sexual acts they didn’t consent to. If they weren’t adults, the public wouldn’t hesitate to call these experiences abuse and exploitation.

I also realized that as an exclusive pedophile, I didn’t really see the benefit in contributing to the demand for more pornography when I wasn’t even attracted to these young men. While producers are undeniably appealing to MAPS with material where young adults act and look like minors, I still knew they were adults.

I don’t think it should be as easily accessible to children online, but my opinion honestly goes for any pornography. However, it should still be legal for adults if it was ethically produced. I could also see it as a very suitable outlet for ephebophiles and some hebephiles.

I’m attracted to girls and women of all ages, so it’s not really a significant factor for me one way or another. I know that there’s some porn that’s made unethically, by exploiting young women desperate for cash, which is a sad thing. It would be a good thing if there were more protections in that kind of industry.

I’ve enjoyed 18/19 porn before. I don’t feel that it was any sort of a risk of escalation for me. In the case of all ethically produced porn, I think it should absolutely be legal and available for consumption online. These days (and then, too) I tend to prefer cartoon or digitally rendered depictions of children for my porn. As with barely legal porn, this isn’t some precipice I’m toeing, just waiting to drop off. It’s a legal, ethical sexual outlet.

I suspect this question is most directly relevant to us hebephiles. So I will answer from that perspective. Hebephilic attraction is more about being physically attracted to body type and certain stages of sexual development than it is about being emotionally or romantically attracted to a certain age. We had some interesting polls on this on VirPed. So if I find the face, anatomy, movement, appearance, mannerisms, etc. of a “barely legal” eighteen year old to be attractive, then I find her attractive. Full stop. It is not like I am also fantasizing that she is younger than she actually is. Likewise, if a thirteen year old has sexually developed to the point that she looks much older than she actually is, then the attraction – or the hebephilic attraction at least – would be diminished.

For these reasons, I personally would not characterize the appeal of barely legal porn as indulging a hebephilic fantasy of being sexual with minors. I would characterize it more as sexual arousal for an eighteen year old with a certain body type. Now there may be those who may be drawn in and aroused by the social taboo that barely legal porn is obviously playing off of. But that is a different issue. That is more of a cultural indictment of unhealthy sexuality than it is something inherent in hebephilic attraction. For those of us who are in acceptance of our hebephilic attraction, an eighteen year old dressed like or pretending to be a thirteen year old is just kind of weird and, quite honestly, a bit of a turn-off. Nor do I accept the slippery slope argument that barely legal porn would somehow lead to sex with minors. That falls into “all pedophiles are monsters” fallacy of presuming that sexual attraction inevitably leads to acting out sexually. I have no more of a problem with barely legal porn being accessible online than any other type of legal porn. I would have more of a problem with criminalizing the lawfully produced pornographic material of a consenting adult solely because of the way she looks.

I’m exclusively attracted to prepubescent boys, so I have no real way to answer this question from personal experience. I never bothered seeking out legal porn, “barely legal” or otherwise, because I know that I wouldn’t be interested in it. I have absolutely no attraction to teenagers who may just be on the age of consent (give or take a couple of years), I’m exclusively attracted to prepubescent children where there is absolutely no doubt that are very far away from the legal age of consent..

Given my usage of other safe outlets, such as fictional stories and non-abusive/non-sexual, legal photos of boys, I can say that alternative outlets tend to indeed be a safe way to fulfill our fantasies, and there is no evidence to suggest that they are a slippery slope. I believe that all safe, non-abusive outlets should be legal and freely accessible for MAPs to use, however in this particular example I’m wary of teenagers and young adults being groomed and coerced into the pornography industry, leading to unethical production of porn. If the porn has been ethically produced, it should be legal and safe for people to view.

I am attracted to male teenagers as well as male children, but to be honest, I’ve never been attracted to “barely legal” porn. I find most porn is kind of a nothingburger for me. It doesn’t deliver the emotional kick that seems to be bound up with sexual feelings for me. I know it works for other people.

I feel like that in principle pornography where the performers are of age, and able to freely consent should be OK.

However, I often wonder whether that’s fully the case, and I think it gets especially dubious when the performers are as young as they legally can be.

In the future I’d prefer to see the world using fictional methods for this sort of purpose, instead of needing real people to act particular stuff out on camera. Obviously, this goes double for any fantasy of underage people, which it’s rightfully illegal to film or get them to do. I personally have never found that my fictional fantasies have created any kind of slippery slope in terms of my behaviour. I’ve stuck to the same fantasies, by and large, since I was a mid teen, and I’m way past forty now.

I have read stories about some young people being more influenced by fiction and trying unsafe things out in real life, and I don’t think that’s a completely unrealistic fear. However it is completely unrealistic to assume that if you take away the porn, that you will take away the problem of unrealistic expectations. Fantasy knows no bounds.

All in all, I would answer the question with a… “maybe? idk”

I admit to feeling a little conflicted about this. I have viewed content involving performers roleplaying as young girls (I have mild attraction to young adults so I see this as a viable outlet for me. However I believe I have mild aphantasia - the inability to form mental images, so my options regarding other sexual outlets are limited), but I am aware of the rumours that the legal pornography industry is still exploitative and in some cases abusive. There may well be direct evidence of that (which I’m not currently aware of). My intuition is that the content I have seen is completely non-coercive, involving consenting adults, usually if not always older than the fictional claimed age that is part of the roleplay (such as ‘18 year old’ actress typically being closer to 25) who enjoy the performance/career, and that if there is anything out there that’s ‘bad’ (more depraved, exploitative, abusive) then it’s separate from what I have viewed. Not that that excuses the viewing. I am mindful of the possibility that I may be looking through rose tinted spectacles.

I don’t believe it is a ‘slippery slope’ to illegal content. I in fact see it as an outlet for those who have limited options and have no intention of seeking out illegal content.

You actually do hear about some people ending up on a “slippery slope”. My understanding is they would have ended up on that path even if barely legal teen porn was illegal. The truth is, many of these people started viewing illegal content when they themselves were children.

I don’t think barely legal teens are the problem. The real problem we have to solve is educating people about paedophilia, so they know how to find good sexual outlets and avoid that slippery slope. There are ethical sexual outlets for MAPs. BLT is just one of them, but it doesn’t work for everyone.

I’m all for barely legal porn being available. The porn industry as a whole is one we can think about, but I don’t see any reason to focus on “barely legal” for extra scrutiny. (“Ethical Porn For Dicks” by David Ley is a very interesting read). One back-handed positive aspect is that the popularity of “barely legal” implies that lots of men would like seeing porn of underage characters if it WERE legal. I think most hetero men are attracted at a gut level to teen girls who have significant sexual development, which is a large portion of them. That is quite different from them feeling like they ought to be able to sleep with the real girls, just that they do feel the attraction. That’s ordinary, vanilla teleiophiles. I think it’s bad that some segments of society want men to feel bad or even sick for feeling such attractions inside.

There is a large, complicated “mind space” of varying things that could provide sexual satisfaction to hebephiles or pedophiles, and I don’t see any reason to single out “barely legal porn” for special consideration. There are girls of age 6 or 7 doing sexy dances onstage as part of organized “leagues”. There are nudist colonies and sites of pictures therefrom. There are girls who run their own social media sites with pictures that are designed to be somewhat alluring, with a strong incentive to push the boundaries to get more views and followers. There are young singers, actresses, and fashion models.

I’m highly non-exclusive, thus attracted to young women, and small, thin women with childish features and small breasts in porn are especially appealing. But much more often my aids to fantasy are pictures of real children in non-sexual situations, often simply a pretty girl’s face from the neck up.

In theory anything of that kind could make a person want more of it, or something more explicit. But “slippery slope” is usually just a scare tactic. Consider income tax rates. A slippery slope! If you raise it from 20 to 25%, the next thing you know it will be up to 60, 80, and then 100 percent, and we’ll be at the total mercy of government hand-outs. No tax increases due to slippery slope! But if you decrease it from 20 to 15, then the next thin you know it will be 10 or 5 or zero, with no revenue at all. No tax cuts due to slippery slope!

Sadly, “barely legal” pornography is still too old for me. It just doesn’t do anything.

Honestly, I think that safe outlets for consenting adults are almost always a positive. Once society deems someone able to consent (however that boundary is set, e.g. an age), I think it’s wise to let them make their own decisions. Pedophiles aren’t going to view barely legal videos and go on a slippery slope. If anything, it will give them a positive, acceptable outlet and encourage them to seek out other consenting, adult partners.

Think of it this way. Suppose you’re raising a child, you’re vegetarian, and you want your child to be one as well. You don’t stop serving your child food in case it’s a slippery slope to eating chicken! That just makes them hungrier for everything. Instead, you show them the positive, safe ways that they can satisfy their need for food.

It’s the same with people who have sexual desires for children. Society too often pursues an “avoid all sex” approach, which is the opposite of what will allow people to go on and thrive in healthy ways.

Even as a Hebephile I have very little interest or use for barely legal porn, as my attraction drops off sharply before they get legal for the most part (15 or 16 years old). There are always exceptions but on the whole I don’t actively seek it out and it doesn’t cause any slippery slope because it’s not appealing to me…

For most of us that are more exclusive, a legal (non-nude) picture of a minor in our AoA (age of attraction) is much more satisfying than any adult porn, barely legal or not. So the question of using it as an outlet probably doesn’t apply to most more-exclusive MAPS.

Personally, because I am an exclusive pedophile only attracted to boys who strictly look prepubescent, “barely legal” pornography does not do anything for me. I’ve tried, but they’re way too old looking. Now for hebephiles and especially ephebophiles (people attracted to pubescents 11-14 and young adults 15-18) I can imagine, with strong emphasis on the latter group, that ‘barely legal’ content does cut it, if they are into pornography. Not everyone enjoys pornography.

I do not think it would act as a slippery slope for anyone. I think that outlets to us are more important and much less of a dangerous thing than most people presume. I am not talking about CSAM, but things where no actual real children have been used or harmed. Things like written erotica and sexualized cartoon images. Our desires are not gonna go away, by ignoring them. So why not use them on something harmless, that does alleviate some of the desire. We do not have enough research to conclude whether such material makes it more or less likely to seek illegal things, but I am keeping a finger on it making it less likely. The day research conclusively can say that it makes it more likely, I will shut up.

In this answer, I have deliberately avoided going into the topic of whether the ‘barely legal’ pornography is ethically produced. I believe all porn should be ethically produced, but we do hear that a lot is not.